Comments on: Demand for Motorcycles and the New Auto Policy for Safer Cars https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars Pakistan's Trusted Automobile Blog Sat, 26 Feb 2022 02:45:29 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.2 By: Crash sensors and airbags https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9062 Sat, 26 Feb 2022 02:45:29 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9062 In reply to Ali Khan.

Ok I’ll participate again. Let’s see what they wrote:

According to sources, local assembled vehicles prices will increase by 30% because of this policy.

It is not only about the airbags. The policy requires other things too, the devil could be in the details but where are the details to be found? On the PAMA website https://www.pama.org.pk/auto-policy/ the New Auto Policy – AIDEP 2021-26 (Awaited) is written. On EDB’s website it is there: http://engineeringpakistan.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Web-Final-for-Print-POLICY-2.pdf, the details are on page 43.
It requires compliance to United Nations Regulations (UNRs) in 13 categories: Brakes, Steering, Tyres, Lighting, Safety Belts Anchorages & Belts, Seats / Head Restraints, Collision, Airbags, Safety Glazing, Mirrors & Cameras, Anti-theft.

The most concerning point is that some of these regulations only target “Passenger Cars and Vans + Commercial Vehicles and Buses” and some of them only target “Passenger Cars and Vans” with no mention of 2-wheelers and 3-wheelers, the bulk of sales of Pakistani automotive sector!

But the point to wonder about is: Ok maybe a 13-14 lakh Alto will become 30% more expensive, upto 17 lakh. But 30% of 85 lakh (list price for base trim of Fortuner) is 25 lakh, so what are the “sources” talking about? smh

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By: Crash sensors and airbags https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9061 Fri, 25 Feb 2022 18:33:49 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9061 In reply to UsmanAnsari.

Yes thank you. That was the article I referred to.

Also meant to continue the above point: this article from 2013 https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/lessons-from-gujarat-tragedy-automakers-should-be-tried-as-much-as-others/ also mentions that local assembled cars cheap out on circuit design. High current should not come inside the cabin, however by choosing to exclude the relay box from the circuit, instead of acting as a remote control, the switches and wiring is used for high current which results in fires as soon as the resistance increases when the car is a little bit older.

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By: Khurram https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9044 Fri, 25 Feb 2022 04:52:39 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9044 In reply to Where are the improvements to motorcycles?.

Once again you are displaying illiteracy that you did by misreading the point about royalty over shortage of Suzuki parts related article.
Is Indian population not better educated than so-called educated people of Pakistan? Check out the website of World Bank and I.M.F. over the human capital related figures and feel some shame in posting such a stupid comment.
Moreover, and for your information, every innovation has a base, it is called human capital and more than 75% human capital sourced from Pakistan is way more illiterate than their Indian counterpart. As for beating inflation there are other ways that you can adopt but given the comments and support for such out of context comments against P.S.O. it is highly improbable that Pakistan can beat it even after the passage of a long-time.

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By: Khurram https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9042 Fri, 25 Feb 2022 04:38:24 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9042 This article is concise but covering every point. In fact, work was much needed for presenting an unheard view of the masses over a large platform, you just did that work in a spiff manner author. May your health wealth and eman increase.
However, I guess due to heading of the topic you did not cover a related and equally important point. Practical application of education, in my view a major portion of Pakistanis, involved in non-religious work, are seriously low on education and even etiquettes needed for doing a professional work, debate over article on shortage of Suzuki parts and update to new car vs upgrade to a better car, Toyota handing its S.U.V. market and cannibalisation is a living proof of that, the likely cost of local assembled products supposed to rise due to compliance with WP29 might be more than 70%.

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By: Ali Khan https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9037 Thu, 24 Feb 2022 16:14:10 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9037 In reply to Crash sensors and airbags.

Excellent point friend.

What you have said, Usman Bhai has covered in his linked article.

That even answers some of my concerns as well. IF these new rules are implemented and IF a stringent check is kept on these companies, they will have to do the implementation of the safety systems properly. That will mean an increase in costs. Maybe that is the reason for the price hike. But 30%???!! Even an increase of 10% seems too much. The reason is simple. Here is another link of one of Usman Bhai’s pervious articles.

https://carspiritpk.com/india-to-have-cars-with-6-airbags-as-standard/

If you go though that, you will find that the added cost of 4 airbags to car is less than 25,000 PKR (when converted from INR to PKR).

Yet adding just the sensors and/or a couple of airbags here in Pakistan will be close to 30% increase. Like I said for such an addition, even 10% is too much.

The government needs to keep an eye on the companies and their unchecked profit margins. But that is just a pipe-dream. The propaganda and the hold of the local assemblers on the bureaucracy is so strong such steps to ensure fair market are always, and will always, be foregone.

Plus, the auto sector has always been a non-serious issue for this or any other, pervious, government.

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By: TruongNguyen https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9035 Thu, 24 Feb 2022 14:57:39 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9035 In reply to UsmanAnsari.

I sense a huge loop hole. Government should fix this ASAP otherwise these assemblers will abuse this loop hole and provide the mandated two airbags with as less sensors as possible since the sensors are not mandated

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By: UsmanAnsari https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9033 Thu, 24 Feb 2022 11:24:30 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9033 In reply to Crash sensors and airbags.

discussed here too: https://carspiritpk.com/are-mandatory-airbags-enough-for-safety/
as far as my information is concerned, number of sensors & their position play a key role in triggering the airbags… though there were some cases reported on social media where local assembled cars were found to have lesser number of crash sensors than necessary, although there are 2 airbags in the car

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By: Crash sensors and airbags https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9032 Thu, 24 Feb 2022 11:14:10 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9032 )" Just a few days ago I read somewhere (IIRC on PakWheels Blog?) that airbags are activated by "crash sensors". As you know more sensors = more money. And "# of crash sensors" is not a selling point. "# of airbags" is. So the hypothesis said that the local auto-assemblers are cheaping out on safety by installing less number of crash sensors. A parallel example is how some rickshaws have 2 headlights but some have only 1. In case of an accident, if the crash sensor is jolted enough, the airbag will deploy, if the crash sensor did not receive much shock, regardless total loss and everybody died, airbag will not deploy. This is why in a fully comprehensive airbag safety system, there are many crash sensors so the computer has enough input, maybe one sensor can fail/burn/disconnect or even simply be in a place that receives limited shock in the case of a collision, but more than one sensors means at least one sensor will sense the severity of the collision depending upon the angle, location and intensity of accident. This is why in some cases the airbags don't deploy. Who can verify this hypothesis? Then these assemblers say "we are providing world-class cars at cheapest rates blah blah blah".]]> In reply to Ali Khan.

There are 2 of your quotes about non-inflating airbags:

“The companies currently do add airbags, however we know that there have been many cases commonly where the airbags have failed to deploy in accidents.”

“…airbags are now there in most local cars (whether they function or not is another matter 🤷‍♂️ )”

Just a few days ago I read somewhere (IIRC on PakWheels Blog?) that airbags are activated by “crash sensors”. As you know more sensors = more money. And “# of crash sensors” is not a selling point. “# of airbags” is.
So the hypothesis said that the local auto-assemblers are cheaping out on safety by installing less number of crash sensors. A parallel example is how some rickshaws have 2 headlights but some have only 1. In case of an accident, if the crash sensor is jolted enough, the airbag will deploy, if the crash sensor did not receive much shock, regardless total loss and everybody died, airbag will not deploy. This is why in a fully comprehensive airbag safety system, there are many crash sensors so the computer has enough input, maybe one sensor can fail/burn/disconnect or even simply be in a place that receives limited shock in the case of a collision, but more than one sensors means at least one sensor will sense the severity of the collision depending upon the angle, location and intensity of accident.

This is why in some cases the airbags don’t deploy. Who can verify this hypothesis?
Then these assemblers say “we are providing world-class cars at cheapest rates blah blah blah”.

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By: Ali Khan https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9022 Wed, 23 Feb 2022 11:29:45 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9022 ). But they will show the government that the costs will increase, confident in the fact that the government will never bother to actually check the validity of their claims. So it is another win for them.</span>]]> Excellent article! However reading about such things is always very frustrating for me. Nothing ever happens in the auto industry that helps the consumer. Its always more, more, more pressure.

According to sources, local assembled vehicles prices will increase by 30% because of this policy.”

This really gets to me. WHY? why will the prices go up?

Toyota and Honda are already giving (two) airbags. Suzuki give them in the Cultus and the alto, except for the Alto VX. The Bolan and Ravi are on their way out anyway so no need to mention them. The companies currently do add airbags, however we know that there have been many cases commonly where the airbags have failed to deploy in accidents. This increase that the companies are no doubt projecting, will this cover the cost of QC for proper airbag functionality testing etc?

Most of the cars here already have airbags. Some of the cars such as the Suzuki wagon R will see increase in price; that is understood. But why a blanket increase overall for something that is already there?

Will this new policy also force the local assemblers to shift to euro 5 or 6? We need to remember that ALL the engines in the local assembled cars are made as euro 5 or 6 compliant. Our local assemblers, especially in the case of our old three, have to get them downgraded to meet the old/previous euro 2 standard of Pakistan. I think that makes the engines more expensive; downgrading them from euro 5 or 6 to euro 2. Now, if the upcoming policy demands euro 5, shouldn’t that negate the current cost of downgrading to euro 2?

(NOTE: Pakistan has implemented euro 5. However, companies, especially the original three, are still going with euro 2)

What is the 30% rise for?

This seems just like another con job to me. The local assemblers are always looking for ways to increase their profits. This is the perfect opportunity; Comply with the new regulations; They already mostly do. Two airbags are now there in most local cars (whether they function or not is another matter 🤷‍♂️ ). But they will show the government that the costs will increase, confident in the fact that the government will never bother to actually check the validity of their claims. So it is another win for them.

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By: TruongNguyen https://carspiritpk.com/demand-for-motorcycles-and-the-new-auto-policy-for-safer-cars/#comment-9020 Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:55:08 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=49604#comment-9020 Great article! You have discussed almost everything wrong with the current Auto policy and the problem with the bikes in Pakistan.

We think that being the 4th largest bike producers in the world can put us in a great economic position if we start exporting the bikes we make, but the saddest thing is that no one in the world except us only use and make these 1975 technology bikes! And even if there is someone that still makes them, it’s always some other third world country and they are already producing enough for themselves, so no need to import from someone else!

In the end, all we have is a completely useless bike market using technology that will become more expensive to make over the years because of inflation, therefore making it even more and more expensive for people to afford.
The fact that the government has actually acknowledged these ancient tech bikes as “Awaam ki Sawari” instead of actually investigating why people are buying more bikes than cars really baffles and saddens me.

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