Comments on: Blame Where the Blame is Due https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=blame-where-the-blame-is-due Pakistan's Trusted Automobile Blog Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:07:23 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.7.1 By: Again cheaper fuel for bikes and again 55% https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-13650 Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:07:23 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-13650 In reply to Low quality fuel for old tech bikes being planned.

14 Mar 2023 – There is new news about different prices of petrol for 2,3-wheelers and others.

https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/petrol-price-to-be-hiked-for-car-owners-decrease-for-bikers-report/

In commentary on this news https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/is-it-possible-to-provide-cheap-petrol-to-motorcyclists/ the statisticians and economists have again come up with the figure of 55% petrol being used for motorcycles.

God knows why nobody comes up with an idea to reduce the fuel consumption of motorcycles. New fuel injection and fuel ignition technologies are not being introduced! Last time the breaker point was updated to CDI in early 1990s. Now the newest technology by the name of “fully transistorized ignition” has been selling in motorcycles abroad, but not introduced in Pakistan at all. Motorcycles are coming with port injection and even direct injection to reduce consumption and emissions! High compression is possible due to availability of better fuels.

The old-timers remember that Pakistan was once self-sufficient in fuel due to the production of crude oil from Badin (surprise: Pakistan is an oil-producing country, but not an oil-exporting country, at least not yet). Even now lots of work can be done to increase oil production https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/451128-self-sufficiency-in-oil and decrease unit consumption.

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By: Motorcycles cumulatively take more fuel, not less! https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-13549 Mon, 20 Feb 2023 14:08:52 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-13549 In reply to Reality of Euro2 difference between car and bike.

20 Feb 2023: https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/does-cheap-petrol-really-benefits-rich-more/

The economist came to the figure of 7:1 ratio of motorbikes to cars which is pretty close to above post. But the politician needs to be told that 2-wheelers buy 55% of the fuel, and the 3-wheelers, 4-wheelers and generators together consume only 45%.

Moreover the statistic of 55% is from 2009 and from then on, sales of 2-wheelers increased more than the sales of 4-wheelers; another factor is that every new model of 4-wheeler is more fuel efficient than the previous one but motorcycles never upgrade their tech so a 1974 motorcycle and a 2023 motorcycle is going to consume the same.

It is high time motorcycles were upgraded to EFI, all the online fora note a direct increase of 25% in fuel efficiency. GDI technology is going to produce even more better results. Motorcycles are easy to repair so taking the manifold off for the occasional sludge removal won’t be a problem, in fact it can be just a non-time-consuming part of the monthly tuneup.

In India all the new motorcycles have ABS, EFI and BS-6 compliant catalytic converter (https://carspiritpk.com/almost-half-a-century-no-change-no-progress/#comment-12618) then why is impossible in Pak? Honda’s all motorcycles sold in Brazil are EFI {https://www.honda.com.br/motos/modelos} so why not in Pak?

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By: Low quality fuel for old tech bikes being planned https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-13303 Sun, 01 Jan 2023 11:15:22 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-13303 In reply to Reality of Euro2 difference between car and bike.

The thought process of our society keeps itself in a reverse gear in general.

By now it is generally discussed info that major source of transportation pollution in 3rd world countries aren’t 4-wheelers but rather the commercial 3-wheelers and 2-wheelers which keep running without any smoke control enforcement.
Example: https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/10/the-worlds-energy-situation-is-not-as-terrible-as-you-might-expect/?comments=1&post=41325042#comment-41325042

But from what PakWheels blog has reported on 12 Dec, 2022 https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/govt-planning-to-introduce-special-fuel-for-bikes/ that Govt Planning To Introduce “Special Fuel” For Bikes.The main argument is that since bikes cannot use high quality fuel, therefore low quality fuel should be made available for bikers at a lower cost.
Given that 79% of fuelpetrol is used for transportation (https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-10922) and out of that, 55% is used for 2-wheelers, what is the benefit of spending extra on Euro5 emissions equipment for 4-wheelers when the 4-wheelers only consume 100-21-55=24% of all the petrol sold?

Instead, why doesn’t anybody question that why aren’t more thermally efficient (high compression) engines with catalytic converters available for motorcycles if they are the major contributor to air pollution? They are content with the statement “motorcycles can’t use high quality fuel”, without asking why? Instead of elevating the tech of motorcycles to be able to avail the benefits of latest tech fuels, they’d rather lower the standard of the fuel just to save a penny, all in the name of “providing relief to the poor”. It is just a displacement, as they will pay for it anyway in the form of healthcare.

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By: New data https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-10922 Wed, 08 Jun 2022 06:00:44 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-10922 In reply to Reality of Euro2 difference between car and bike.

https://propakistani.pk/2022/06/06/heres-how-much-fuel-cars-consume-in-pakistan-daily/

So the 2022 figures show that out of the total 56 million litres daily consumption, 79% is (44 mn) consumed in transportation, but the bifurcate detail of 2-wheelers is missing.

There is also a chart for the 2021 # of vehicles and a graph which shows the exponential growth of motorcycles. The article then interprets that 23 mn motorcycles means 23 mn litres of daily consumption? The sum of all figures in the chart comes out to 3,13,18,000 , not close to 56 mn.

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By: Reality of Euro2 difference between car and bike https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-9617 Wed, 23 Mar 2022 07:25:56 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-9617 In reply to Reality of Euro2 difference between car and bike.

tl;dr: I’m back again with statistics to show that it is more important than ever to focus on the fuel consumption, emissions and safety of 2-wheelers.

Update: From here https://carspiritpk.com/geely-tests-worlds-first-methanol-hybrid-sedan-in-40c-proving-grounds/#comment-9611 I arrived at the statistic in this linked news https://www.dawn.com/news/831608/e-10-to-be-available-at-rs59-84-per-litre I was looking for since 3 months.

This article https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/ was posted on 23rd Dec 2021 and I’m submitting this comment on 23rd Mar 2022.

The linked news piece from 16th Jul 2009 https://www.dawn.com/news/831608/e-10-to-be-available-at-rs59-84-per-litre mentions that 55% of all petrol is consumed in 2-wheelers. {This is 55% of petrol only, and burning wood, coal, diesel, kerosene, JP fuel, LSD, LNG, LPG, CNG, HFO etc. cause their own pollution but that is not relevant to petrol.}

It is more important than ever to focus on the fuel consumption, emissions and safety of 2-wheelers.

This news is from July 2009, let’s consider previous fiscal year from here https://www.pama.org.pk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/historical-data.pdf, in 2008-09 82,844 cars vs 507,924 2-wheelers were sold.
In 2020-21 151,182 cars vs 1,903,932 2-wheelers were sold. The sales of cars hasn’t doubled but the sales of motorcycles has quadrupled!

From the date of the Dawn article (2009), 1,836,271 cars have been sold but the number of 2-wheelers is 15,104,880. The cumulative figure is a better representation of the state of affairs! 18 lakh cars vs 1.5 crore bikes! It is a 8+ times difference!

It is a safe assumption that now the proportion of fuel consumption of 2-wheelers will be much greater, since the number of motorcycles sold is higher and also the Bykea and Foodpanda scene has exploded which didn’t exist in 2009.

Let me say it again: the government is focusing on Euro5 and airbags of private cars, but now it is more important than ever to focus on the fuel consumption, emissions and safety of 2-wheelers.

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By: Ali Khan https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-8058 Thu, 06 Jan 2022 10:04:06 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-8058 👍]]> In reply to Reality of Euro2 difference between car and bike.

Well said friend. Thank you.
Much appreciated.👏👍

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By: Reality of Euro2 difference between car and bike https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-8045 Thu, 06 Jan 2022 07:21:45 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-8045 In reply to It is Euro2.

Let me tell you one more thing. Motorcycles and rickshaws Euro2 standard is far more lax than the Euro2 for 4-wheelers.
Look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_passenger_cars

and in the same entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_motor_cycles_(two_and_three_wheelers)_%E2%80%93_L-category_vehicles

For example allowed carbon monoxide for cars is 2.2 g/km and for motorcycles it is 5.5 g/km. It means that motorcycle while consuming far less fuel than a car can still release more than twice the poison per km yet still achieve a Euro2 rating. (CO is a total poison causing slowly effecting death called “sweet death”). Similar is the case with hydrocarbons+nitrous gases which is 0.5 g/km for petrol cars and 0.7 for diesel cars but 1.3 for motorcycles.

This is how they achieved Euro2 by practically doing nothing to their motorcycles except pasting new stickers! Because the Euro2 for 2-wheelers is practically a joke compared to Euro2 for cars!

Maybe the criteria was because the number of motorcycles in Europe is much less hence the environmental impact is low. But number of motorcycles in South Asia is very high and motorcycle should be held to a higher standard because it consumes much less fuel than car then why is it allowed to pollute 2 or 3 times than a car?

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By: 100 years of lead poisoning https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-7990 Fri, 31 Dec 2021 17:27:45 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-7990 In reply to The case of MMT is still hanging.

This is how the oil refineries and automotive companies lead-poisoned entire planet’s population for a whole century https://theconversation.com/a-century-of-tragedy-how-the-car-and-gas-industry-knew-about-the-health-risks-of-leaded-fuel-but-sold-it-for-100-years-anyway-173395 and this is how the local oil refineries are still doing it with MMT which has been banned all over the world and even in Pakistan but still they use it.

Quoted from one of the above links: https://carspiritpk.com/confusions-hondas-complaint-bad-petrol/ November 5, 2017

But oil executives, speaking off the record, bristled at the suggestion that the fuel quality was creating problems in some engines. “Manganese is used as an octane-booster all over the world. It is a normal product to find in any vehicular fuel,” said one.

Which is a complete lie since Fazal Wahab in this article https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/oil-companies-threaten-honda-atlas/ Nov 14, 2017 wrote the total history of how MMT is completely banned in some places and in other places refineries don’t use it despite not being banned since it is out-of-fashion and other better ways are already present to improve the octane number.

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By: Bloody Civilian https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-7916 Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:39:19 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-7916 Well written!

Please write an article regarding below line:

“Toyota has the problem of its “TNGA” architecture, without which it cannot get any new hybrid or non-hybrid models assembled in Pakistan.”

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By: The case of MMT is still hanging https://carspiritpk.com/blame-where-the-blame-is-due/#comment-7866 Sun, 26 Dec 2021 15:48:01 +0000 https://carspiritpk.com/?p=47304#comment-7866 In reply to Euro5 fuel from local refineries.

As we are on the topic of pollution, fuel quality and health & environment, note should be taken that the local refineries had also missed the 1st May 2019 deadline of zero-MMT a few years ago and seemingly there is no seemingly intention or observable actions being taken to upgrade their refineries for zero-MMT.

Article extensively covered by Fazal Wahab:

From 2017: https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/oil-companies-threaten-honda-atlas/
From 2020: https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/mmt-harmful-fuel-octane-booster-still-being-used-in-pakistan/

These 2 articles had some great comments but ever since PakWheels Blog deleted their entire comments, these 2 articles also lack their comments. Pakistanis have some next-level social responsibility volunteerism potential and IIRC there was one person who’d come back on the “birth anniversary” of the article to remind that nothing has happened on this front.

Relevant reads from CarSpiritPk:

2017: https://carspiritpk.com/honda-says-fuel-shell-total-pso-harms-engines/ and https://carspiritpk.com/confusions-hondas-complaint-bad-petrol/ and https://carspiritpk.com/honda-says-fuel-shell-total-pso-harms-engines/
2018: https://carspiritpk.com/ogra-tests-confirm-petrol-in-pakistan-is-harmful-for-engines/ and https://carspiritpk.com/honda-pakistan-seeks-japan-experts-help-curb-use-chemicals/ and https://carspiritpk.com/ogra-asks-govt-standardize-fuel-quality-pakistan/
2020: https://carspiritpk.com/auto-industry-wants-2-years-euro-5/ and https://carspiritpk.com/switching-euro-5-solve-environmental-problems/

MMT is a fake shortcut to achieve higher octane number, in the end the only thing it does is to damage the engine and catalytic converter, the exact opposite what higher-octane-number is supposed to do. In the process it manages to degrade the environment and public health too. Wonder what the oil companies executives get their big fat paychecks for when they themselves and their families also breathe the same contaminated air and put the same kachra fuel in their vehicles.

PS. https://www.prl.com.pk/product-price/ There are products named “MS 95 RON with Manganese”, “MS 95 RON without Manganese”, “MS 97 RON with Manganese”, “MS 97 RON without Manganese” but prices aren’t mentioned in front of them. Instead price is mentioned in front “Motor Spirit” only. There is no such thing on the webpages of other oil refineries, in fact some of them’s website even doesn’t open.

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